WCAG WG F2F day #2Topic for #wai-wcagWCAG WG F2F day #2 * wendy offers to submit examples of minutes from several other W3C WGs that give examples of how dialog, resolutions, and actions are recorded in such a way that those who were not in attendance are able to understand what occurred.Andi tells Christophe the group thinks it would be helpful to have a session where we walk the guidelines for applicability to VoiceXMLChristophe has been contacted by VoiceXML Forum Accessibility Committee, who are now reviewing the document on VoiceXML and WCAG 2; next telecon on this is on Friday 28 October. Al Gilman is also in that committee. Andidefinition of timeout is a new proposed definitiongregg proposes removing it for now because it doesn't apply to all of our uses of the termaction: David - develop a defintion of timeout that includes the scenario of holding down a key and notes that there are timeouts that occur in the content and those that occur in the server * RRSAgent records action 2 Andis/defintion/definitiondiscussion of Gian's scenario of buying ticketsin cases such as this where the user can't be allowed to request more time or customize the timeout, they should at least be told that information up frontaction: Loretta and Gian to discuss at a break and make a proposal * RRSAgent records action 3 greggircgregg has joined wai-wcag Andibreak * Christophe will go home for dinner in a few minutes. See you again tomorrow. Makotobye now, Christophe * Andi waves goodbye to ChristopheChristophe waves goodbye to Makoto and Andi. ChristopheircChristophe has left wai-wcag Anditopic: Guideline 2.3Trace purchased the rights to the algorithm and produced a tool that can be made available for free for assessing Web content greggircgregg has left wai-wcag Andidiscussion about the term "marked in a way that the user can avoid it"Andi proposes changing SC to "A mechanism is available that allows users to avoid content that ....rationale is it removes language (marked in a way) that sounds technology specific and it follows format of other success criteria wendyq+ andi wendyack q Andidiscussion about note on other standardsfuture standards might be okay to use in addition to the one we have nowsounds like the standard is really a "technique" and there might be additional or replacement techniques available in the futureproposal to remove the standard from the SC and discuss it only in the techniquewe used to have it that way and comments received that the SC was too vagueconcern that moving the standard from the SC to the techniques opens the door for someone to create another standard that is not as good.s/techniques/guide doc/ wendyPresent: Matt May, Michael Cooper, David MacDonald, Tim Boland, Sofia Celic, Gian Sampson-Wild, Becky Gibson, Andi Snow-Weaver, Wendy Chisholm, Gregg Vanderheiden, Ben Caldwell, Alex Li, Loretta Guarino Reid, Makoto Ueki, Gez Lemon, Don Evans, Sandy Bartell Andistraw poll on 1) leaving the SC the way it is and removing the Note (errata would be required if a new standard is to be allowed) or 2) generalizing the SC and putting the standard in the guide doc techniquesnobody prefers option 1, all but about 5 people prefer option 2 rscanoircrscano has joined wai-wcag Andiresolution: change 2.3 L1 SC1 to "A mechanism is available to allow users to avoid viewing content that could provoke seizures due to flashing content."resolution: Guide doc will refer to the standards as sufficient techniquess/Guide doc/Guide doc for GL 2.3 L1 SC1/ jslatinOFHNetIRC<proposed>content that flashes at a rate or in a pattern known to cause seizures</proposed> Andiresolution: change 2.3 L1 SC1 to "A mechanism is available to allow users to avoid viewing content that flashes in a way that is known to cause seizures."rationale: note conflicts with SC (creates the WCAG 1.0 "until user agents" scenario). New proposal puts guidance for authors in guide doc but allows for future additional or replacement standards. Michaelq+ to discuss hiding algorithms in a tool MichaelMichael can't get queue acknowledgedWants to say for the record it's great a paper's on the way but can't approve SC until have read the paperIf the paper is not forthcoming before we produce next draft, I can't vote for inclusion of the SC Andiack andi Andiack Michael AndiOfcom standard is freely available on the InternetTrace licensed the "Ofcom standard" engine and created a tool that they can distribute for free for evaluating Web content rscanoOfcom is a normative issuer?"Ofcom is the independent regulator and competition authority for the UK communications industries, with responsibilities across television, radio, telecommunications and wireless communications services" Anditopic: Guideline 2.3 L2 SC1resolution: modify GL 2.3 L2 SC1 to be consistent with adopted wording for GL 2.3 L1 SC1 wendyneed guidance for people who are authoring Andiissue now raised about language "known to cause seizures"any flashing content can cause seizures in some people BeckyircBecky has left wai-wcag Andiaction: Gregg to make a propsal for new language that captures the idea of content that violates a standard * RRSAgent records action 4 bengtircbengt has joined wai-wcag Makotolunch time! * bengt wonderts if tnere is any phone conference too ... David_MacDonaldircDavid_MacDonald has left wai-wcag rscanoircrscano has left wai-wcag * Andi tells Bengt we're having lunch nowAndi there is no phone conference this timebengt was at a meeting tonight with java people, and some had quertions about color blindness beeing addressed in wcag 2.0 and I cant remember if we addressed the issue properlybengt wonders if the user can select the preferred colors to be used ? in the context of presenting tables and graphs ?bengt was talking to a web designer that was grreen-red-brown colorblindAndi we just have SC about not conveying information with color David_MacDonaldircDavid_MacDonald has joined wai-wcag Anditopic: Guideline 2.4topic: Guideline 2.4 L1 SC1resolution: change SC to use "programmaticallly determined" instead of "programmatically identified": Navigational features of the content can be programmatically determined.rationale - just adopted a new definition of "programatically determined" and this is what we meandiscussion about definition of navigational featuresconcern about definition of "programmatically determined" MakotoircMakoto has left wai-wcag BeckyircBecky has joined wai-wcag Andiconcern that WCAG 1.0 checkpoints were mapped based on a definition of "programmatically determined" has changedhave to revisit the mappingdo we mean "navigational features" to include headings? David_MacDonald_ircDavid_MacDonald_ has joined wai-wcag Andinavigational features are links and buttons KeshircKesh has joined wai-wcag ben_ircben_ has joined wai-wcag wendyquestion about groups of links - is the group a navigational feature or is it structural? MakotoircMakoto has joined wai-wcag David_MacDonaldircDavid_MacDonald has left wai-wcag benircben has left wai-wcag Andiq+ Keshack A bengtircbengt has left wai-wcag wendyfrom the 13 June 2005 F2F discussion:Rationale: Level 1 SC 1 used to be the same as 1.3: "Structures and relationships within the content can be programmatically determined.". We found that for 2.4, we should only focus on the functional requirements necessary to facilitate finding, orienting in and navigating through content. That's why we changed the wording into: "Navigational features can be programatically determined". Andidiscussion about the high level purpose of gl 2.4 as opposed to gl 1.3 wendyrationale for proposal for this criterion - http://www.w3.org/2002/09/wbs/35422/navigation-mechanisms20050531/ results Andigl 1.3 is about making the structure you have programmatically determinablegl 2.4 is about adding structure to the content wendysame quesitons raised for this proposal in june Andiaction: Andi and Wendy to work on GL 1.3 and 2.4 together to make sure all situations are covered * RRSAgent records action 5 wendyaction 5 = Andi, Wendy, Loretta, David to work on GL 1.3 and 2.4 together to make sure all situations are covered * RRSAgent records action 5 replaced bengtircbengt has joined wai-wcag Anditopic: Guideline 2.4 L2 SC1discussion about the benefit of this SC to people with disabilitiesit's to support different learning stylesstill have the issue that this is not applicable to Web applications which are designed to work a particular wayonline banking is an example of a Web applicationhaving trouble defining a Web applicationone measure of a Web application is that it collects and processes information (i.e. form element) wendyproposed text: More than one way is available to locate content within a set of delivery units except for where the content is the result or step of a process or task. AndiAndi wants to propose: When the purpose of a set of delivery units is to provide information, more than one way is available to locate content within the set of delivery units. wendyandi - i added that as an option to the wiki.action: wendy, becky, alex work on proposal for guide for guideline 2.4 l2 sc1 * RRSAgent records action 6 jslatinOFHNetIRCircjslatinOFHNetIRC has left wai-wcag Anditopic: Guideline 2.4 L2 SC 2discussion about technique of ordering page so content is firstdiscussion about whether skip links have to be visibleno resolutions