sing along with WCAG WGTopic for #wai-wcagsing along with WCAG WG Beckymc: will harvest ideas - no discusions but can note objections (w/o details) to proposed script techs Beckymc: GL 1.1 SC1 - have several HTML and one CSSmc: non-text content generated by script must have text alternatives is one way of thinking about * joeclark that's me calling back in. bensuccess criterion to techniques mapping - http://www.w3.org/WAI/GL/2005/06/30-sc-techniques-mapping.html Beckymc: tech-nontext elements generated by script must have text alternativesbg: tech-need to show how to properly add non-text elements that will work with AT Beckybg: clarify - add non-text elements via scriptinggv: what about using script for hiding content?jc: that tech is often used for learning disabilities greggscript used to hide text must be accounted for as well joeclarkbut of course that also applies to HTML comments, display: none, and visibility: hidden Beckymc: move on to GL 1.1 SC2 gregga link to a sequence of pages that provide function (for some simple function) Michaeldescribe the Becky nightmare where page has to reload over and overmight be 4.2 stuf Beckybg: noted that seems like an HTML rather than script techmc: but is a way to provide fallback when scripting not availablemc: need gen. tech for what is a good alt. for functional non-text content - simple example is a calculater Beckygv: could provide link to server side implementationyh: client side forms validation with server side back upmc: see that as under another GL but log it heremc: move onto sensory non-text content GL 1.1 L1 SC3gv: text labels above and below the sensory content * Yvette thinks that should be _or_ wendyRegrets: Roberto Castaldo, Sebastiano Nutarelli, Luca Mascaro, WATANABE Takayuki, Makoto UEKI, Loretta Guarino Reid, Roberto Ellero, Roberto Scano Beckymc: next: GL 1.1 L1 SC4yh: need css tech for using images as list item bulletstb: thought we had that tech but got rid of itjc: css background images are being used freq nowjc: for decorative imagesyh: can also use css for non-essential background audio * joeclark has to take another call (from MS!). Beckymc: would we consider no-script element with no content? SebastianoircSebastiano has left wai-wcag Beckygv: putting it in a fashion so if script is not supported it just disappearsgv: for decorative contentmc: this becomes a tech. that just explains that you don't have to do anything (for scripting that is not essential to operation)mc: GL 1.1 L1 SC 5 - currently no techs * Christophe Yvette, bg sound in CSS: play-during: http://www.w3.org/TR/1998/REC-CSS2-19980512/aural.html#mixing-props Beckyyh: can map the same techs as for SC 3 TimircTim has left wai-wcag Beckywc: tech for meta refresh for web cams - traffic cams for ex. * Andi is back and wishes her friends and family would stop having medical problems Beckymc: next - GL1.1 L3 SC1 * ChrisR must run. See ya on the list ChrisRircChrisR has left wai-wcag * Andi asks Becky if she needs a break on the minutes Beckymc: gen tech about what captions are and audio desc. are and how to provide * Becky sure!Andi asks if she can listen for five minutes to figure out what we're discussing Beckymc: next GL 2.1 L1 SC1 * Becky fine Beckymc: correct - GL 1.2 L1 SC1wc: need to provide information about caption formatswc: that can be used - can link to other sites with that info * joeclark what kind of formats? Beckyyh: can store user settings in a cookie - this can apply to several diff SC * Yvette Joe: like quicktime Beckygv: provide a script button to access the captions wendywac: link to flash techniques benshould also include discussion of open captioned format alongside non-captioned Michaelrelates to question about relationship of general to tech specific techs Beckytopic: GL 1.2 L1 SC2 Andiscribe: Andi * Becky says thx, Andi Andimc: needs techniques that describe audio descriptions and how to create themyh: techniques for switching audio tracks wendyADI guidelines for AD - http://adinternational.org/ADIguidelines.html Andiwc: ADI guidelines for AD - http://adinternational.org/ADIguidelines.htmltopic: GL 1.2 L2 SC1yh: techniques for time shifting?gv: techniques are the same - maybe we should talk about streaming captionswc: most RT captions are a service that you can buy wendye.g. http://www.captioncolorado.com/ Andigv: could talk about captions being provided in a separate windowgv: could also talk about open captions wendyinternet text streaming - http://www.captioncolorado.com/products/internet.html Andiwc: e.g. http://www.captioncolorado.com/wc: internet text streaming - http://www.captioncolorado.com/products/internet.htmlaction: Wendy to provide some links from her research * RRSAgent records action 1 Anditopic: GL 1.2 L3 SC1 gregglink to stable site that provides description of different options for real time captioning Andiyh: techniques for providing sign language video wendye.g., vcom 3d http://www.vcom3d.com/ Andimc: techniques on picture in picture displaymc: SMIL techniques for sizing and positionin window greggpresent in separate window Andiwc: most of issues came from RNIDwc: suggests getting RNID to provide techniquesyh: techniques for where to positiontopic: GL 1.2 L3 SC2 wendyhttp://ncam.wgbh.org/richmedia/tutorials/qtxad.html http://ncam.wgbh.org/richmedia/tutorials/qtxad.htmlCreating Extended Audio Descriptions in QuickTime Andimc: same as audio descriptions, SMIL 2 will have a way to pause videowc: NCAM has lots of resources wendyAD tutorials: http://ncam.wgbh.org/richmedia/strategies/XAD.php Anditopic: GL 1.2 L3 SC 3gv: techniques are the same Andiwc: John Slatin's performance where the audio description was scripted but done "live"gv: radio describes - that's why lots of people listen to the radio and watch at the same timegv: problems with feasibilitytopic: GL 1.3 L1 SC1mc: have lots of HTML techniques but no general techniquesmc: CSS techniques around positioning, stylingbg: scripting - create elements when creating new contentyh: relationship between caption/audio description and multimedia - does that need to go here too?topic: GL 1.3 L1 SC2yh: style switcheryh: asterisk near required field instead of just making it redmc: emphasis element and coloring rather than just using span with coloryh: color for headingsmc: script technique that is cautionary - don't just change the color unless also setting some structural attributebg: it's an issue when creating elementsbc: encoding color so that it can be programmatically determinedbg: have to specify it a certain way so that ATs can pick it upyh: techniques for indicating correct and incorrectdm: wrote general techniques for formsyh: can you map one technique to two SC?mc: yestopic: GL 1.3 L2 SC1gv: choosing technologies whose players expose text attributes to ATyh: not using CSS as the only way to indicate a blockquotetopic: GL 1.3 L2 SC2mc: similar to L1 techniquestopic: GL 1.3 L3 SC1bg: should be some script techniques but can't think of any at the momentas: tabindex? may be covered by 2.4yh: negative CSS technique - don't put stuff out of sequencemc: css techniques for affecting the layout, when that fails, the order should still be relevantyh/mc: sequences between delivery unitsbg: script to provide style switchertopic: GL 1.4 L1 SC1yh: css techniques for background images and colorsyh: css technique for layered divsbg: script techniques for hiding themtopic: GL 1.4 L2 SC1gv: should have only general techniques * wendy needs to get going. see you all in ~10 days. ciao! * Andi waves goodbyewendy waves back Andimc: may still be good to have html and css techniques but suggest looking at general techniques alsoGL 1.4 L2 SC2 * ben remembers his action item to write techs for this! Andigv: if no tools a lot of this is pretty trickyyh: link to toolsmc: tools only check - how do we tell authors what they have to dogv: stem is the main part of the character, not the serifmc: general techniquestopic: GL 1.4 L2 SC3bg: script technique with a buttonyh: cookie technique that remembers settingsmc: html technique with bgsoundgv: cookie technique with a scriptbc: html techniques around autoplaytopic: GL 1.4 L3 SC1gv: expect to lose some of these provisions when we get the final numbersmc: css and html techniques for using foreground and background colorsmc/gv: mostly in general techniques Michaelmake sure scripted colour changes to create violations that weren't there before Andiyh: script technique - moving text must have sufficient contrast with all the places it can move totopic: GL 1.4 L3 SC2gv: general techniques - strategy for measuring DavidI could also send an CDbye * Andi wonders how to get the minutes generated? bengtircbengt has left wai-wcag mcmay_BYEircmcmay_BYE has left wai-wcag * Christophe Andi, I think it "RRSAgent, draft minutes" AndiRRSAgent, draft minutes RRSAgentI have made the request to generate http://www.w3.org/2005/06/30-wai-wcag-minutes.html Andi BeckyircBecky has left wai-wcag * joeclark was on the phone talking about caption and subtitle fonts, ironically.Christophe Andi, I think you can publish the log with "RRSAgent, make log public", but do we want to do that? benircben has left wai-wcag * Michael is off tomorrow. Talk next week. MichaelircMichael has left wai-wcag * joeclark yes, Christophe, we do.Christophe soooo ChristopheRRSAgent, make log public RRSAgentI have made the request, Christophe